Learning a programming language as an adult. - Computers, Math ...


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yellowtamarin
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

Joined: Sep 06, 2010
Age: 31
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:47 am?? ?Post subject: Learning a programming language as an adult. Reply with quote

I was good at programming back in high school, and nearly followed that career path, but things got in the way. Now I can still understand how programming logic works, but I can't remember any actual code beyond IF THEN ELSE.

Has anyone out there taken up programming for the first time as an adult? Or forgotten it then taken it up again? Was it tricky, or do you think I'd find it as easy as I did when I was young? I mean, I have tried to learn other languages (e.g. Spanish, Portuguese) recently and really struggled, even though I was good at learning French in high school. I'm hoping this is completely different, more like riding a bike.

I think there's other threads on here about which languages are good to learn, but feel free to suggest something if you like. I don't have any specific career goals in mind or anything, it's just something I'm thinking about pursuing.

Cheers Smile

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one-A-N
Phoenix
Phoenix

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Posts: 550
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:56 am?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

I first learned to program when I was about 30. At 33, I took a break for a year and half to pursue post-grad studies (philosophy, not computer science) and had to relearn the particular language I was using at work afterwards. It took a while to relearn (hmmm, it was a rather complex language), but programming has been one of my special interests. In my own programming time, I keep trying to do the same things over and over, gradually improving, but never fully succeeding (perseveration?). I am really interested in simple compilers and simple operating systems, so I keep thinking up designs and ideas, starting on them, running out steam when they get too complicated, putting them aside, then getting a new idea a while later...

Learning a foreign language is harder, in my opinion. I taught myself to be a lot more fluent in another language by reading (of all things) the early Harry Potter books in translation. Got some funny looks on the train, but my language skills improved markedly. Still, I am not really fluent. And some of my vocabulary skills are really "useful" (like, I know the words for wand and potions).

Programming languages are simpler and much

more regular than natural languages. So they should be easier to learn. As it happens, I originally learned Basic, and these days do a lot of programming in PHP (dynamic web pages). My "core" language is C. I would not necessarily recommend any of these languages as a first language, though. Java is not too bad a choice - it is in many ways a "clean" language - it does not teach you too many bad habits (unlike Basic and PHP). Java does have a huge library of classes in which you can feel a little overwhelmed, but a good tutorial book will prevent that.
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FMX
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polarity
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:10 am?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

While I too am going to recommend a programming language, I'm going to recommend that you not learn a programming language.

A programmer becomes good, not by knowing all the intricacies of a single language, but by becoming familiar with the concepts that are common to all forms of programming, regardless of the language. In fact the more languages you learn, even to just a basic level, the more concepts you come across, and the more methods you will be familiar with which to solve problems. With many languages having a focus on solving certain tasks, knowing several provides insight into solutions that wouldn't be apparent to someone who only knew one language.

Similarly, learning from several people is better than learning from just one source. Excessively formal education of programming doesn't give you access to code examples from many different programmers, and will limit you. You can learn early on by reading other people's code, then adapting it and fixing it. Instead of having a specific problem defined, and then the whole of a solution set out in a textbook, go out and find a problem, and attempt to solve it. Then attempt to improve on the solution, several times if necessary.

What you need to do with your computer is set up an environment on it, where you can find problems to solve, and probably one of the best ways is to set up a web server, and then use programming in web design. That will give you something to use Python (PHP, Java, PERL, Ruby, etc.) on, as well as the slightly more accessable Javascript (it could also give you access to database programming which is a great skill to have, seeing as a lot of programming is all about manipulating data).

Another way is to play some computer games. MMORPG games like WoW and Rift allow players to customise the user interface by writing addon programs. These can be incredibly simple, and in the case of WoW are sometime only slightly more complicated than the macros used by most non-programming players. You don't need to subscribe to either of those games, as they have unlimited duration trials. WoW has a huge amount of quality documentation on writing addons, as well as a massive library of other people's addons that you can look at, over at wow.curse.com, and while Rift, being newer, has slightly less documentation, it's made quite a few improvements over WoW in it's Addon system, that make it easier to use, if not as easy to find some kinds of information.

The language used by both games for their Addons is Lua, and after programming BASIC (spectrum 48k, BBC Micro, and QBASIC under DOS), Javascript, PERL, Python, PHP, and even assembly language (PIC microcontrollers), it's easily my favorite language to use. Python comes joint second because it too is relatively easy to learn and use, alongside PIC assembly language, because although it's something most coders these days wouldn't dream of doing, on account of the language and concepts being so far removed from what a lot of them expect from a language, there's nothing like coding as close to the hardware as possible to learn how to optimise your code.
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guitarman2010
Blue Jay
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noname_ever
Deinonychus
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:26 pm?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

polarity wrote:
While I too am going to recommend a programming language, I'm going to recommend that you not learn a programming language.

A programmer becomes good, not by knowing all the intricacies of a single language, but by becoming familiar with the concepts that are common to all forms of programming, regardless of the language. In fact the more languages you learn, even to just a basic level, the more concepts you come across, and the more methods you will be familiar with which to solve problems. With many languages having a focus on solving certain tasks, knowing several provides insight into solutions that wouldn't be apparent to someone who only knew one language.


The intricacies and idioms of each language are important, but not in the beginning. The language specific things (precedence rules, short circuiting conditional rules, pointer manipulation in C/C++, the way each language handles global values, multiple inheritance implementations, exception handling) are important as you become more advanced. If you don't respect the idioms of a language, the code that is written looks extremely odd. An example is using a struct in C as an object of a class. A proper class has data members and function members. You can do the same thing in C (adding functions to a structure by making a fields that are pointers to the functions. It works, but looks really odd.
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MyFutureSelfnMe
Phoenix
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MyFutureSelfnMe
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Feb 27, 2010
Posts: 816
Location: NYC


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:42 pm?? ?Post subject: Reply with quote

one-A-N wrote:
I first learned to program when I was about 30. At 33, I took a break for a year and half to pursue post-grad studies (philosophy, not computer science) and had to relearn the particular language I was using at work afterwards. It took a while to relearn (hmmm, it was a rather complex language), but programming has been one of my special interests. In my own programming time, I keep trying to do the same things over and over, gradually improving, but never fully succeeding (perseveration?). I am really interested in simple compilers and simple operating systems, so I keep thinking up designs and ideas, starting on them, running out steam when they get too complicated, putting them aside, then getting a new idea a while later...

Learning a foreign language is harder, in my opinion. I taught myself to be a lot more fluent in another language by reading (of all things) the early Harry Potter books in translation. Got some funny looks on the train, but my language skills improved markedly. Still, I am not really fluent. And some of my vocabulary skills are really "useful" (like, I know the words for wand and potions).

Programming languages are simpler and much more regular than natural languages. So they should be easier to learn. As it happens, I originally learned Basic, and these days do a lot of programming in PHP (dynamic web pages). My "core" language is C. I would not necessarily recommend any of these languages as a first language, though. Java is not too bad a choice - it is in many ways a "clean" language - it does not teach you too many bad habits (unlike Basic and PHP). Java does have a huge library of classes in which you can feel a little overwhelmed, but a good tutorial book will prevent that.

Last I heard, most university CS programs start people in Java these days (University of Wisconsin switched to it from C about two years late for me, I already knew C going in) and I understand that is because Java doesn't have pointers and does have a garbage collector and more extensive built in class library including GUI functions. However, I'm not convinced that makes it a better place to start. I think starting in a non-OO language like C, with its very limited standard library and *lack of* a garbage collector, makes you more aware of what you are doing which is actually valuable to beginners. There's also the issue that you will most likely *not* be developing in Java as a professional, and you may want to start closer to where you want to go.

Incidentally I suspect I get better job offers now because universities aren't churning out C++ coders and I am a very good one. Less competition. Fewer C++ shops too though.

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Travelon Anti-Theft React Messenger Bag

The Anti-Theft React Messenger Bag from Travelon has a padded section to hold a laptop, an organizer panel with room for a tablet, pens, and phone, and still has room for some papers, clothing, or other personal items inside.? There’s a zippered pocket on the front flap, a grab handle, and a shoulder strap.? The [...]

Source: http://the-gadgeteer.com/2012/07/07/travelon-anti-theft-react-messenger-bag/

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Three antidepressants, no alcohol in Mary Kennedy's system

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Special Requirement for Professional Firms Forming a Business in MN

If you are starting an LLC or corporation in Minnesota that will be providing professional services, there are special requirements to consider.

Certain professional services firms require specific provisions in their Articles of Organization (for an LLC) or Articles of Incorporation (for a corporation). These professional firms include

  • Accountancy
  • Architecture
  • Certified Interior Design
  • Chiropractic
  • Dentistry & Dental Hygiene
  • Engineering
  • Geoscience
  • Landscape Architecture
  • Law
  • Marriage & Family Therapy
  • Medicine & Surgery
  • Optometry
  • Pharmacy
  • Physician Assistant
  • Podiatric Medicine
  • Professional Counseling
  • Psychology
  • Registered Nursing
  • Social Work
  • Surveying
  • Veterinary Medicine

The entire list is provided in the definition of ?professional services? in Minnesota Statutes section 319B.02 subdiv. 19. Under that section, ?professional services? means services of the type required or permitted to be furnished by a professional under a license, registration, or certificate issued by the state of Minnesota to practice medicine and surgery under Minnesota Statutes ?? 147.01 to 147.22, as a physician assistant pursuant to Minnesota Statutes ?? 147A.01 to 147A.27, chiropractic under Minnesota Statutes ?? 148.01 to 148.105, registered nursing under Minnesota Statutes ?? 148.171 to148.285, optometry under Minnesota Statutes ?? 148.52 to 148.62, psychology under Minnesota Statutes ?? 148.88 to 148.98, social work under chapter 148D, marriage and family therapy under Minnesota Statutes ?? 148B.29 to 148B.39, professional counseling under Minnesota Statutes ?? 148B.50 to 148B.593, dentistry and dental hygiene under Minnesota Statutes ?? 150A.01 to 150A.12, pharmacy under Minnesota Statutes ?? 151.01 to 151.40, podiatric medicine under Minnesota Statutes ?? 153.01 to 153.25, veterinary medicine under Minnesota Statutes ?? 156.001 to 156.14, architecture, engineering, surveying, landscape architecture, geoscience, and certified interior design under Minnesota Statutes ?? 326.02 to 326.15, accountancy under chapter 326A, or law under Minnesota Statutes ??481.01 to 481.17, or under a license or certificate issued by another state under similar laws. Professional services includes services of the type required to be furnished by a professional pursuant to a license or other authority to practice law under the laws of a foreign nation.

Go here for additional information on state licensing agencies for professional services firms.

Like this? Click here ? ?

Source: http://minnesotaattorney.com/special-requirement-for-professional-firms-forming-a-business-in-minnesota/

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The 20th Annual Hunger Games

The 20th Annual Hunger Games

And may the odds be ever in your favor!

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May I reserve the girl from District 12?

"Of all forms of caution, caution in love is perhaps the most fatal to true happiness."

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WhiteTiger08
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hey just to shed some light on your amazing RP would you mind adding the weapons ?
It helps that way so people won't just post that they got a weapon

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Fruity_Loopsxx
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Could I reserve district eight female.i promise I will get her up as soon as possible

ISo stick that in your juice box and suck it!

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Tayloremond
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Big Brother Season 14 Cast, Twist: Revealed!


CBS has announced most of the Big Brother Season 14 cast members, along with a twist:

Along with 12 brand new players, the voyeuristic reality show will also bring back a quartet of former contestants, all of whom are playing for their own, separate prize.

Executive producer Allison Grodner teases this as a "game within the game" and says the identities of the "fan favorites and winners" will be revealed at a later date.

Jenn Arroyo PictureWillie Hantz Picture

As for the newbie? The cast includes a former Playmate, the brother of a notorious Survivor castaway, a nurse and a chef. Read on for more details, as Big Brother returns on July 12.

Jenn Arroyo, 37 (pictured)
Hometown: Brooklyn, N.Y.
Current City: Brooklyn, N.Y.
Occupation: Musician, former bass player for the female metal group "Kittie"

Joe Arvin, 41
Hometown: Lexington, Ky.
Current City: Schererville, Ind.
Occupation: Chef

Frank Eudy, 28
Hometown: Marion, Ark.
Current City: Naples, Fla.
Occupation: Unemployed

Jodi Rollins, 42
Hometown: Englewood, Colo.
Current City: Calipatria, Calif.
Occupation: Restaurant server

Willie Hantz, 34 (pictured)
Hometown: Vinton, La.
Current City: Dayton, Texas
Occupation: Tankerman

Wil Heuser, 24
Hometown: Louisville, Ky.
Current City: Louisville, Ky.
Occupation: Marketing consultant

Ashley Iocco, 26
Hometown: Pittsburgh, Pa.
Current City: West Hollywood, Calif.
Occupation: Owner of a mobile spray tanning company

Shane Meaney, 26
Hometown: Bennington, Vt.
Current City: Bennington, Vt.
Occupation: House flipper

Kara Monaco, 29
Hometown: Orlando, Fla.
Current City: Los Angeles, Calif.
Occupation: Model

Danielle Murphree, 23
Hometown: Grant, Ala.
Current City: Tuscaloosa, Ala.
Occupation: Nurse

JoJo Spatafora, 26
Hometown: Staten Island, N.Y.
Current City: Staten Island, N.Y.
Occupation: Bartender

Ian Terry, 21
Hometown: Pittsburgh, Pa.
Current City: New Orleans, La.
Occupation: Engineering student

Source: http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/07/big-brother-season-14-cast-twist-revealed/

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Drought hits 56 percent of continental US; 'significant toll' on crops

By Miguel Llanos, msnbc.com

The prolonged heat across the Midwest has not only set temperature records, it is also expanding and intensifying drought conditions -- and relief isn't on the horizon for most areas, the National Weather Service reported Thursday.

Drought conditions are present in 56 percent of the continental U.S., according to the weekly Drought Monitor.

That's the most in the 12 years that the data have been compiled, topping?the previous record of 55 percent set on Aug. 26, 2003. It's?also up five percentage points from the previous week.


An Arkansas auction house has seen a jump in the number of cattle put up for sale as many ranchers are unable to afford to feed the animals due to an ongoing drought.

The drought hasn't been long enough to rank up there with the 1930s Dust Bowl or a bad stretch in the 1950s, David Miskus, a meteorologist at the weather service's Climate Prediction Center, told msnbc.com.

"We don't have that here yet," he said. "This has really only started this year."

But for a single year it's still pretty significant, not far behind an extremely dry 1988.

While 1988 saw much drier conditions and an earlier start to the drought than this year, said Brad Rippey, a meteorologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture,?2012 has its own interesting qualities.

"This year the high temperatures have certainly played into this drought," he told msnbc.com. "There's a lot more evaporation ... and crop demands for water."

The Drought Monitor noted that the drought?is starting to "take a significant toll" on food supplies. "In the primary growing states for corn and soybeans, 22 percent of the crop is in poor or very poor condition, as are 43 percent of the nation?s pastures and rangelands and 24 percent of the sorghum crop."

More than half the nation is caught in an intensifying drought, with record-high temperatures and thousands still without power. The deadly heat has taken an especially big toll on corn crops, sending prices skyward. NBC's John Yang reports.

"July 4?8, 2012, doesn?t look promising in terms of relief," it added. "Modest improvement is forecast for most areas that have endured the recent heat wave, but most locations from the Plains eastward are still expected to be warmer than normal."

NYT: Dust Bowl fears as Midwest heat shrivels crops

Rain and cooler temps are forecast for many areas in mid-July but over the summer "drought is likely to develop, persist or intensify" across much of the Ohio and Tennessee valleys, the Corn Belt region, the Mississippi Valley and much of the Great Plains, the weather service said Thursday in its latest Seasonal Drought Outlook.

In Tennessee, the severity of the drought has been reported by county farm agents sending comments to the National Agricultural Statistics Service office in Nashville, the Associated Press reported.

"Crops have really begun to suffer and go backwards this week. Rain is needed yesterday," wrote agent Richard Buntin in Crockett County.

Crops and pastureland are "burnt to a crispy crunch," wrote?Kim Frady of Bradley County.

"Need rain," in Loudon County, added John Goddard. "Saw a farmer digging a waterline about 4-5' deep. Nothing but powder!"

The weather service on Thursday did say there's a better chance that the El Nino weather system would return by winter.

If it's a typical El Nino, that would mean better than average rainfall for the southern tier of the U.S., Miskus noted.

"Maybe there's some hope," said Rippey, "but that's way on out in the future. That's not a short term relief."

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Source: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/05/12579687-drought-hits-56-percent-of-continental-us-significant-toll-on-crops?lite

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